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And more Avengers analysis by the same user.

theumbrellaseller:

Okay can I talk about this for a sec? No? Tough, because I’m gonna go ahead and do it anyway. Because this little exchange was so indicative of their relationship that I wanted to die.

We already know that without the armor, Tony sees himself as nothing. “Iron Man yes, Tony Stark not recommended”, right? There’s more than a touch of bitterness when he throws that exchange back at Coulson in his first scene. We know about his issues with his father, we know about his drinking, we know that he watched a man sacrifice his life in a cave in the Middle East so that he, Tony, could live.

Steve doesn’t. And yet almost by accident, he finds Tony’s weak spot, sticks in a knife, and twists. Steve’s trying to shame him, trying to hold Tony accountable for actions that he, as a soldier, sees as reckless and irrresponsible— he’s already furious with Tony for needling Banner, which potentially endangered the lives of everyone on the ship (He can’t know, of course, that Tony recognises something in Banner, a control on his inner demons that he can only envy; Tony knows what it’s like to have a monster inside of him that he can barely contain) and Tony’s devil-may-care attitude is the final straw. Steve sees right through Tony in a way few people do; but not deep enough, no, because if he could fathom just how deep Tony’s scars go (and if he wasn’t being influenced by Loki’s sceptre, just behind him) he wouldn’t have said those things.

Because hey, Steve is lashing out here. You saw him in the gym; all that coiled rage, the flashbacks, the way he destroyed that punching bag. Steve’s in as much pain as Tony right now. Not that anyone’s interested. They just want him to put on the suit and be glad they won the war. Tony’s comments earlier about Steve being “not of use” made their mark. Steve already feels outdated and useless. Tony represents everything Steve doesn’t understand about the new century, everything he hates; he’s an unreliable jumble of technology, ego and pop culture references Steve doesn’t understand. Oh, and Tony used to make weapons. Big weapons. How d’you think Steve felt when someone filled him in on the advances in warfare that happened while he was asleep?

And Tony? He’s having his insecurities thrown back at him by a living legend, by the man his father admired above all others; a man Howard Stark spent years digging through the ice for when he should have been caring for his son. Steve is talking, but I’m pretty sure Tony’s hearing his father.

“The only thing you fight for is yourself. You’re not the guy to make the sacrifice play.”

Half of that sentence is true. Tony does fight for himself; he fights to redeem himself every day, not because of the body count his weapons have amassed (Natasha’s not the only one with red in her ledger) but because he doesn’t see himself as worthy of anything. Of the suit, of the few friends he has, of his money, of his life. He fights every day to prove to himself that he deserves to exist. And that is why he would make the sacrifice play. In a heartbeat. If he doesn’t deserve to be here, it’s only right he die for someone who does. And Steve just told him “yeah, you’re right, you don’t deserve to be here. I know guys worth ten of you, and they’re dead, and you’re alive.”

It’s awful, really, how much these two men are capable of hurting each other.

And yet. Underneath the barbs and the anger and the hurt, this exchange shows exactly why they work so well together.

“…to lay down on the wire and let the other guy crawl over you.”

“I think I would just cut the wire.”

“Always a way out.”

That. That right there. Tony is a master at thinking on his feet, at improvisation, at taking risks that tend to pay off. He’s brilliant, but volatile. And Steve is strategic, methodical, noble almost to a fault. Tony could come up with solutions Steve would never even dream of, and vice versa; when Tony spends time hacking into SHIELD’s servers, Steve investigates on foot. They are exact opposites, in personality and skill, and that’s why they’re the unofficial leaders of the Avengers. The differences that drive them apart in this scene are what’s going to make them unstoppable later on. Because they’re not half as good at anything as when they’re doing it next to each other.

(Source: hemsworthss)

theumbrellaseller:

hemsworthss:

science bros.

There are no words to describe my feelings about this relationship. But I’m going to try.

First of all, their parallels. Both geniuses, top of their field. Both suffered an accident that physically changed them, forever, and not in a wholesome Spider-Man kind of way. Both try to do what they can to help others despite their own issues; Banner heals people, Tony works on developing clean energy. And both struggle, in their own way, with duality; Tony and Iron Man, Bruce and the Hulk. Two identities, one body. Only difference is Iron Man’s bad side is Tony.

I mentioned somewhere that Tony sees a bit of himself in Banner because they both have a monster inside them that they can’t control, a creature that springs fully formed from the id, the base impulses and the nasty stuff at the back of the mind. Bruce’s is a giant green rage monster. Tony’s trashed a party in Iron Man 2. Banner has a control over his that Tony hasn’t quite achieved yet; don’t think I didn’t notice Tony pouring himself a whiskey when confronting Loki. Tony is envious, fascinated, and most of all, impressed by Bruce’s control.

So he doesn’t walk on eggshells around Bruce like the others, because that’s not what Bruce needs. Tony sees Bruce’s restraint, sees the quiet, brilliant man making self-deprecating jokes in the corner of the room, sees the way people look at him like he’s going to snap any second, and thinks “nope”. Tony does what no-one else aboard that Helicarrier does. He trusts him. He makes jokes and jabs him and teases him and above all, treats him exactly how he would treat anyone else— he has a great regard for Bruce’s brilliance, and tells him so, but he doesn’t try to ignore the Hulk in the room. When he says “wow, you’ve really got a handle on this, haven’t you?” he’s not saying “gosh, it’s incredible you haven’t snapped yet and killed everyone on board” he’s saying “I know you have a handle on this, you wouldn’t be here if you didn’t, so I’m gonna poke you with this sharp object to prove it”. And you can see Bruce relax, and smile, and trust him back.

But then Tony goes even further, and invites Bruce to come to his R&D department. I’m pretty sure the two of them drive off together in Tony’s car at the end of the movie to do just that. And, okay, sure, Bruce is smart, but Tony’s tech is his baby. How many people get invitations to come and see his work? He invites Bruce because he recognises his brilliance, yes, but there’s another reason. He’s inviting Bruce to come down and work with him after this is over. He’s giving Bruce something to do next, a purpose, an alternative to disappearing into the ether to be alone with his monster. Tony knows from experience that being alone with your issues doesn’t end well, so for what’s only the third time in his life he extends the hand of friendship to a guy he’s known barely an hour.

And then, he tells Bruce to let the beast loose. Not just because they need him to fight, but because it will help him. If Bruce can take this thing that he sees as a curse and turn it into a gift, well, that’s going to lift him out of a very dark place. I’m not saying Tony knew about Bruce’s attempted suicide, but I think he had a suspicion that Bruce had been, in his words, “low”. So he encourages Bruce to take all that crap and pain and the Other Guy and use him to help people; after all, that’s what he did.

And it pays off. Nobody— nobody— thinks Bruce is going to turn up for that final battle. You can see the look on Natasha and Steve’s faces when Tony asks if Bruce turned up yet. They’ve counted Bruce out. Guy’s a mess, right? He’s too volatile. Doesn’t play well with others. He could never work as part of a team. No-one thinks he’ll come through when it matters. Except Tony. He has faith in him, and that faith is rewarded. It’s no wonder the Hulk is the one to catch Tony. Tony’s the one who helped let him out. He’s just returning the favor.

As an actor in training, it really shocks me to just realize how in depth the story is behind their friend ship. It’s completely something I seriously didn’t pick up on and it really is starting to make my brain ache in need of how the fuck Robert Downey Jr saw this in the script. What did he see? What other sources did he read other than the obvious. He and the other cast clearly have the entire complete story at their every whim along with Stan Lee to show the right direction. But how as actors can we find iotas of hints and information that shows us what’s going on behind the actual dialogue. That weird invisible connection that to the untrained eye would simply be taken granted for? I honestly thought the movie was a simple straight forward movie about heroes but with the interesting part being the dialogue of the characters making jokes and what not. I did expect that everyone would like it for the action alone (Which they obviously did) but did they pick up on that friendship between Iron Man and The Hulk? Or was that specifically aimed at the die hard comic fans that knew better? When the blu-ray disc comes out for this, I’ll be watching this over and over again along with the commentary and begin the scenes to find this shit. Somehow, I feel like I’m going to be disappointed as there’s most likely not going to be much info about it like every other behind the scenes content there has ever been, but still. I’ll sit there for an entire 24 hours watching that shit.